What do you think the appropriate course of action is for Henderson County?

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After careful consideration, I must say, I have changed my mind, as unpopular as it maybe, to think the nativity scene needs to be moved to property not belonging to any municipalities. Here's why. The court cases FFRF is standing on here is County of Allegheny v. ACLU Greater Pittsburgh Chapter, 1989. In this case, the Supreme Court found that creche (nativity scene in this case) standing on the grand staircase of the Allegheny County Courthouse in Pittsburgh was impermissible. FFRF will use this case and the Judge will have no choice but to rule in favor of the plaintiff. It is a no win situation. Henderson County could then appeal the decision of the Judge but, this will very expensive for the taxpayers of the county and it's not every day you get a Supreme Court ruling over turned.

The other option would be to allow permits for anyone to display what they want on the Court House lawn. This is the route Manitowoc County took when they were sued by FFRF for very same reason. Unfortunately, the following year, the county was flooded with request for permits from the FFRF lynch men to display their religious displays which consisted of snowmen holding signs saying "God is dead", "there is no God", "Jesus is not the reason for the seasons" .... you get the point. And, the first time you deny one of these atheist wacko's their right to display their trash, it's back to court. Permits .... not so much an option I'm thinking.

Probably the best course of action would be to move the nativity scene, not far, but to a location that is not owned by the municipalities. At that point, the FFRF would have no grounds to sue. Then I would suggest that the Athens community and Henderson County show their disgust with this anonymous plaintiff and the FFRF by displaying as many nativity scenes an religious display as possible on private property and businesses through out the County and East Texas for that mater.

I believe Henderson County can avoid a costly lawsuit, that in all reality seems to be a no win situation and still celebrate Christmas as we have for so long. I am not a lawyer and I don't claim to know much about law. That is my opinion on this topic and I would appreciate any feed back.

John

John,

While I do agree with you 99% of the time with your posts on KLTV, I voted for the nativity scene to be moved off the courthouse lawn. I am a firm believer in separation of church and state. Religion or any symbols should not be viewed on any form of government building. There are too many cultural differences within the American society. In order for the government to respect all, it should remain neutral or display all. Neutrality is the cheapest way for the government to go. I am Wiccan, one of the most misunderstood peaceful religions there is. No, it does not consist of casting spells like the majority of the public believes. Wiccans believe in a God and Goddess. Live at peace with nature and mother earth.

I have spoken with many pastors, as the business I am in deals directly with all religions and churches. I do have the utmost respect for other religions even if I dont agree with their belief system. I have simply explained it like this: Every person has to do their own soul searching when it comes to religion. Educated themselves. They will know what is right for them when they feel whole inside and like nothing is missing. Once that person has found that feeling, they have found their home and what is right for them.

Most do not realize that Christmas is a pagan holiday. In 350 A.D. Pope Julius I declared Christmas a Christian holiday in an effect to convert more pagans to Christianity as Christianity was in decline. He also declare it to be the official birth of Jesus since his actual date was never recorded. The Roman church banned Yule celebrations, but it did not stop the people. The Church started seeing Christians converting back to paganism and conformed to bring the people back to the church. The information is readily available from the Vacitian. I have had to do numerous studies on this subject and other Christian holiday's in my cultural studies in college.

By no means am I trying to start an arguement. I just want people to open their eyes and minds and realize that we should all be respectful of each other, not only as a human but also with our different cultural backgrounds. Moving of the nativity to a private property or religious facility would bring peace and respect of everyone. The government should not be aloud to dictate our personal religious beliefs. If we all believed the same, there would only be one church and one faith.

Samara Morgan

Well Ms. Morgan,
Actually I think you agree with me 100% of the time. Although, I did initially chose to Leave the nativity scene as it is, after further review, had a change of mind. I agree the nativity scene should be moved to a non-municipality location. My passion on this subject comes from being a staunch Constitutionalist. I believe in the Constitution and I believe the true meaning of the establishment clause has been perverted by certain Supreme Court cases and then exploited by hate groups such as FFRF. Also, I would like to say I too have lots of time in such cultural studies and I am familiar with Wiccan. Thanks for your post.

John

sdm1201 wrote:John,

Most do not realize that Christmas is a pagan holiday. In 350 A.D. Pope Julius I declared Christmas a Christian holiday in an effect to convert more pagans to Christianity as Christianity was in decline. He also declare it to be the official birth of Jesus since his actual date was never recorded. The Roman church banned Yule celebrations, but it did not stop the people. The Church started seeing Christians converting back to paganism and conformed to bring the people back to the church. The information is readily available from the Vacitian. I have had to do numerous studies on this subject and other Christian holiday's in my cultural studies in college.

By no means am I trying to start an arguement. I just want people to open their eyes and minds and realize that we should all be respectful of each other, not only as a human but also with our different cultural backgrounds. Moving of the nativity to a private property or religious facility would bring peace and respect of everyone. The government should not be aloud to dictate our personal religious beliefs. If we all believed the same, there would only be one church and one faith.

Samara Morgan

ms. morgan,

i have a great deal of appreciation for your candor and openness. i respect your bravery at being openly Wiccan in an area that could be hostile to practitioners. being Pagan myself, i don't share my religious beliefs with the people in my community to protect my children from that potential issue.

i have to also commend you on your patience and respect to all religions. i have met a number dogmatic and fundamental pagans over the years... imagine my utter shock. the majority of them were openly hostile towards Christians, disdainful of Christian worship practices, and adamant that Christians should not be allowed to utilize some of the symbols that our faiths have in common. it was...strange.

as you well know, being a student of the arts, symbols belong to all of us through the shared beauty of the collective unconscious. i'm disturbed by the hate speech that originates from the philosophical viewpoint of atheism. were it simply a non-religous, non-God/Goddess movement, there wouldn't be an issue, but they've set themselves up through vile rhetoric to be anti-Christian. i simply cannot abide that.

littlesouthernmama

I live in Henderson County and pass the Nativity Scene daily. Puts a smile on my face and prayer in my heart. It was 1 person who says they are from Henderson County and they wouldn't even leave their name so who knows if they are or not? Regardless, I voted for MY Commissioners and Judge to vote and stand for the majority. Christians are the majority here. We pay our taxes in Henderson County. OUR CITIZENS raised the $ for OUR NATIVITY SCENE that WE want placed on OUR COURTHOUSE LAWN. I appreciate the publicity this has brought to public..it has brought CHRISTIANS TOGETHER and got people talking about OUR LORD & SAVIOR! THANKS AGAIN! GOD CAN AND IS USING THIS ONE ANNONYMOUS CALL TO WORK FOR HIM! THANKS ANNONYMOUS ATHIEST CALLER!

kathys71 wrote:I live in Henderson County and pass the Nativity Scene daily. Puts a smile on my face and prayer in my heart. It was 1 person who says they are from Henderson County and they wouldn't even leave their name so who knows if they are or not? Regardless, I voted for MY Commissioners and Judge to vote and stand for the majority. Christians are the majority here. We pay our taxes in Henderson County. OUR CITIZENS raised the $ for OUR NATIVITY SCENE that WE want placed on OUR COURTHOUSE LAWN. I appreciate the publicity this has brought to public..it has brought CHRISTIANS TOGETHER and got people talking about OUR LORD & SAVIOR! THANKS AGAIN! GOD CAN AND IS USING THIS ONE ANNONYMOUS CALL TO WORK FOR HIM! THANKS ANNONYMOUS ATHIEST CALLER!

kathy,

i wholeheartedly agree with you and voted that way in the poll. i think the nativity should be left in place to raise the spirits of all that pass and to express the religious stance of our founding fathers. FFRF calls itself an atheist group but is, in reality, a spiritually bereft group of hate mongers. i'm sorry that you and the other residents of henderson county are having to fight this fight with this reprehensible group. i think that any that report they have been the caller to a hate filled organization like FFRF are telling the world that they are cowardly and spiteful. a nativity scene, even if you aren't Christian, is a symbol of faith, peace, beauty, grace, dignity, and love. there is no evil in the presence of the nativity on municipality property. i hope the county stays firm and doesn't capitulate to these spiritual bullies.

littlesouthernmama

Thank you so much for the encouragement. What a shame it comes to fighting for what is right, but we will! And we have good people in office with great morals, God fearing people and that's exactly what we need. We are going to fight for this and pray for our enemy. They have know idea how God is using them. He sure works in mysterous ways. Always Awesome! Again thank you so much!

Tooo funny!....as a matter of fact I do know about Church of Christ..I have gone to one for many years! Oh yes they believe in Christmas and Easter. I was raised in an ASSEMBLY OF GOD...LOVE THE BAPTIST and METHODIST, along WITH CATHOLICS! I have enjoyed them all and respect each and everyone of them. I have an awesome God! I have been to many Churches. I love them all. There are going to be MANY denominations in the KINGDOM OF THE LORD! The word of God is found in The Bible...its not a religion...its in your heart and soul..I'm praying for you and God LOVES YOU TOO. God is love not the anger you show. Must be hard being so angry. Again God bless ya and Merry Christmas!

As I said...there will be ALL DENOMINATIONS in Heaven! Our Lord and Savior looks upon the hearts of His people...and YES we are ALL God's children. He gave us free will...if some turn their back on Him...HE gave YOU the freedom to do so. There is nothing offensive about Our Nativity Scene..it is simply a mother and father with a baby in a manger....no offensive words to read or promotion of a specific religion. Just because someONE thinks they know what it means or stands for, is their speculation is no ones problem to figure out but the ones doing the speculating. After all...posting pictures on facebook or elsewhere of ones family and moments they treasure is fine for you to do which others could find offensive and be like you and try to force you to remove your memories. Regardless of the outcome of this God is getting what HE wants....People talking about HIM! Wow isn't HE AWESOME!...GOD BLESS YA YOUR DOING WHAT HE WANTED WHETER YOU KNOW IT OR NOT!....HE WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS EVEN THROUGH YOU!

Process Deist wrote:First, let's re-examine what I said about the Church of Christ. They do not 'celebrate' what is considered the Liturgical Calendar. The same can be said of many Henderson County Churches. I did not say they did not believe in the Birth of Christ or the Passion of Christ. They do not have special worship on these days.
Now to the list of Churches you list as friends. I notice that you did not mention Jewish, Jehovah's Witness, Latter Day Saints, Mennonite, Eastern Orthodox, Unitarian Universalist and a number of other groups that make up a small portion of the Henderson County population.
And, of course, you completely forgot to address the issue of Kwanzaa and how the government of Henderson County honors our newest Holiday.
I have not posted in anger. I have posted to engage in thoughtful conversation about the callous nature of religions.

i fail to see where either of your posts in this thread make any definitive or legitimate point...about...anything. we're currently discussing the nativity. the fact that black churches celebrate kwanzaa, etc. has no bearing here unless you are arguing that all should be represented. if that is, in fact, your point then make it. nitpicking the semantic and minute details of the various denominations of Christianity isn't really relevant as the nativity in question isn't supporting any one denomination of Christianity. perhaps you'd have a valid point if the word Protestant were emblazoned on the side of the manger...but it isn't.

Littlesouthernmama is so correct and on target.

@Processed Diet
Your comment makes no point. You atheist are all the same. Your Anti-American agenda and your hate and antipathy for all things only Christian void you of any common sense or compassion and leave you with only a message of hate and intolerance.

Process Deist wrote:Government is created for the purpose of administration of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
WE individuals create our own personal beliefs to administer our own personal lives. That is our freedom.
Don't make MY/OUR government comply with YOUR personal religious beliefs.
Get the religious symbols off the government property!

you do realize that the Supreme Court doesn't agree with you, don't you? the Supreme Court that is, in fact, part of YOUR government?